What's REALLY Happening to Gen Z Careers in an AI World #ai

I had been a corporate executive for 26 years and since 2017 I was working with generation Z and I was very intrigued by work ethics, their innovation, the ideas who said well young kids can't do anything. Do you believe Gen Z will lead the AI revolution They will lead the AI revolution. They'll be the conduit for AI development. A lot of them have probably got more entrepreneurial experience than many corporate leaders by doing their side hustles, but they just don't know how to convert these ideas in a corporate workspace. So would you please introduce yourself My name is VJ Madavan, VJ for short, and I'm the founder of Albus. It's acronym that stands for own your life. uh he lead a very uh nichebased niche focused consulting firm focused on multigenerational workforce capability helping companies to accelerate the performance of their teams for sustainable profitable growth. What triggered your shift from corporate executive to researcher and GenZ advocate So Sam it's it's an interesting question way back during the pandemic I was very much uh thinking about my next pivot. I had been a corporate executive for 26 years and uh since 2017 I was working with generation Z and I was very intrigued by their work ethics, their innovation, their ideas but I also faced a lot of skepticism during that time uh from my peers who said well young kids can't do anything right uh are they capable of delivering and so the six months when I was taking uh a break from work I was spending spending a lot of time with my daughter and my daughter is a gen Z and one big question was sort of faced to me and there was a dilemma in fact what would the world be like when she entered the workforce what opportunities would be there how would she navigate some of these labels and the dynamics of the environment this led me to then say well this is going to be the next space that we have to look at because I recognize is that one in four gen z's will be in employment in Asia Pacific and will be 30% of the workforce across OECD by uh 2030. So this isn't a generation that will bridge the millennials will be the next set of senior leaders and generation alpha which is going to enter the workforce in 8 years time. So I then dedicated myself to say well the old doors will not open new opportunities. There needs to be a fundamental shift at the corporate level at the education level even at a parenting level. And so I said well that's my mission and it became my eeky guy. And so I then set up the company to focus on JZ's how they can integrate into multigenerational teams. how multigenerational teams can adapt to the unique styles and communication, you know, kings as we call it because they have very unique language and be able to sustain a business profitably with high performance and at the same time I then decided to build uh practice through research and therefore enrolled in my doctorate program focusing on Gen Z. So that was the initial step. But then after my first year with the advent and the rise of AI, I recognized that AI was going to be a powerful enabler in the next revolution at the workplace. So I delved into AI about 14 months ago and I have had many aha moments where I know that teams will be really powered by AI. That's how I deep dive into research. So I use a lot of my research and my consulting work and vice versa and I've developed a number of interventions or solutions that are bespoke for my customers. Why do leaders jump on AI without solving foundational issues first It's an interesting question and this is a question that faces a lot of organizations and they actually overlook this. Now when we start a journey we always have a destination but when you look at corporate strategic planning processes they'll come in we'll take a KPI we'll put the KPI there and then we work it backwards and business as we all know it begins and ends with people but that's the last conversation that every corporate I've come across has is all about the financial numbers is all about the operational models But very little focus is given on what capabilities do we need to deliver this new goals and what have we got. So that's what I call in my game changanger manifesto. What I've got over what it takes and more often than not that conversation is left out or it's backfilled in any in most strategic plans. So when even you look at AI people will be a big part of implementing AI, right So which parts of your process are you going to enable with AI Who would be the people working on it Do they have the capabilities These are all tail end questions instead of forefront questions. So I then find that you know a lot of companies jump into AI because it's a shiny new object and they don't want to be left behind without really giving thought what needs to change. Does our culture need to change Does our operating model need to change And if that needs to change, how do we start with our people first Because you know, people love change as long as it's is within their comfort zone, right Uh so I think that's that's the dilemma that most companies overlook I believe is innocently or tend to avoid or kick it kick the can down the road because they hope that well it will all fall in place. I think that's too big a chance to take and too big a risk. Why call G&Z unpolished gemstones rather than rough diamond Huh Well, to me, when you consider a person a rough diamond, you mean it means that you have to extract value out of them. Gen Z's are already very innovative. They're very creative from my experience working with them since 2017. They're curious. They're willing to learn. They're willing to experiment. They bring a lot of ideas. But what we need to do is to give them the platform where they can navigate conversations. So example here is that you know we talk about AI and we expect Gen Z graduates to be AI fluent but if you speak to Gen Z's only 24% of them have received formal AI training and schools spend too much time working on AI policing because they believe that AI prevents creative thinking. Now I have an alternative view actually if that only works powerfully if you know what right questions to ask and for that you need creative and critical thinking. So AI actually is a very strong platform to develop those skills and the other thing is you know they're very much digital natives on their phone from the moment they get up till the moment they get to sleep and that's where they lose some of the social skills in communication and active listening. So you need to train them on that. Understand that you know their perspectives uh that vary from their thought chain of thought. They have blind spots. Help them to see blind spots not as criticism but as a way to improve themselves. So I think it's more polishing by giving them the opportunities and the tools and giving them the mentorship, guidance, coaching, you can name it. There are number of interventions. But I don't think uh they are rough diamonds. They are already quite polished. A lot of them have probably got more entrepreneurial experience than many corporate leaders by doing their side hustles. But they just don't know how to convert these ideas in a corporate workspace. Uh what should leaders and learn to better engage today's workforce I think the the most important thing is they have to relinquish control. This thing about our hierarchy is that the higher up the more control you have. Yes. But in order for you to run teams today at speed, you need to relinquish some of that control and you need to give staff whether be any generation. you know uh the empowerment to make decisions to be held accountable but provide them the appropriate safety nets so that when they fall you are there to sort of cushion it right and then that becomes the learning right so failing failure fast FFF as many people refer to it but also learning from that failure quickly so that you develop new skills so but the challenge for leaders is how do they make time for it because there are 1 million agendas they deal with. So command and control seems to be the best way because they have a vision of the future and you know it with all new leaders particularly with new seauite leaders they're all out to prove themselves as but on hindsight is there a need to because you did not become a seed by chance you actually have enough battles cast to show your journey to a leadership role so therefore you should be using that to sort of guide and coach know when to be in front of the flock and when to be hearding it. And that means developing new skills of coaching, mentoring, providing feedback without bias. Well, that's easier said than done. But these are the new skills. Empathy, active listening, not listening to respond, but listening to really understand. Okay. Um what batters do you see in companies trying to align culture and purpose So purpose I believe now is the new currency. From my studies Sam I've seen a number of things right especially postco right and it applies to even my generation as an ex the millennials and the z's. Now everyone now says well I want to work for a boss I want to work for a company but I like to see their alignment with my values and my goals and they're becoming you know staff are becoming skeptical as I investors with all these major pitch stories that we make or leaders sort of create and convey but it's not carried through. though they're looking at you know purpose a purpose is not just you know a slogan on a poster it is embedded in everyday operations and decision making even in development people of today are willing to walk away from jobs good paying jobs if the purpose is not aligned another very interesting insight here is uh two years ago I did a pilot study with genes across Azan around their perceptions on the employee value proposition And one of the issues that came up was purpose. And Jenz's don't just do research on a company. They also research on their line managers after their interview. They talk to their friends and say, "Well, I came across my new line manager. He interviewed me. What is he really like in real life in the office" So, they are also validating and doing far more due diligence on you as a line manager and a leader. And even if you put the best pay package out of them, if they don't see the alignment of leadership and purpose with their values, they're not going to take the job. They rather stay home. And that's because that is the the cushion we have created uh you know as Gen X basically to make sure our children don't have to suffer the way that we have gone through. So we make it easy for them. So they know they have alternatives and they don't want to rush into a job but they are doing their due diligence. Okay. Uh what's working and what's not working in a net performance system. So there are a lot of there's a lot of AI software there on performance management and there are people who are saying well it helps helps you to do B you know but I think there is a big part in AI which as we see more a AI agents and robots and processes coming through is two aspects one is the ethical use of AI and the other one is its explanability uh no matter how you use AI if we don't explain to the users how AI is actually working in providing fairness to performance objectives, minimizing bias, there will always be something to blame. So it is very important that that those aspects are being explained. So there's a lot where we say oh we'll help you to do the bell curve. The bell curve is obsolete as far as I'm concerned. You know uh even pay packages why should the increment of a employee be standard across a company Why can't an employee who is really outperforming be given a larger chunk and how do you explain that using AI Right Because one of the things we all are subject to is recency bias and performance management. If a manager sits down with a staff, he's only going to remember everything that's happened recently. And then if it's positive, he will say you've done a good job. But if it's negative, you say, well, you could have done better. But if you're having regular compositions and AI is recording these compositions, picking up key elements of achievements, but also development areas, providing them the immediate feedback and and sort of nudging employees to to work on their development areas, you can see a performance over a period of time. And then you can then help the manager that has say approved points or references to say well over the 12 months this is how this employees perform and therefore deserves a particular rating right uh because in my experience every time we give a poor rating the employee asks why because they expect a high rating but AI actually is a great tool to ensure that those events learnings or outperformance is captured and can help the managers give you a fair and objective view of how an employee has journeyed through the year in terms of their output, their value, right And also their preparedness to do something bigger. So do you think and this is a follow-up questions AI is unbiased Not really. You know uh we we we have uh we have this thing right now we always talk about gigo and mimo right garbage out malice out I think in a corporate level your data is equally very powerful if your data is not organized then what you feed into your AI will produce what's what's better to it so I think companies organizations need to start with looking at their data understanding how the AI works right Which is the explanability part where the ethical considerations are. It's never going to be fully 100% unbiased because it learns from its training. Right The data is trained and over time it improves. So what you feed into it is equally important. So if I have fed into you know I've done a lot of uh regression tests using machine learning deep learning for a lot of clients and I've showed them that the entire area under the curve is so skewed because their data is so fragmented. So it is not unusual because when there's a change in leadership they all want to have a new set of data to look at. So but isn't that somehow AI policing of the workforce Yes, that is correct. So that is why you should not ignore old data. All data needs to be there but you as a leadership team needs to then identify what is critical and what do we keep and making sure that we keep that and everything else additional. Yes, it's nice to have you know if it is not critical but you need to identify what your base critical information is and it needs to be done collectively and not left to an individual leader to decide. I I'll give you an example Sam and I've seen this with sales teams right that I've sort of a new person comes in and they look at the sales funnel and then all of a sudden and you know they say okay our focus is to feed as many people at top of the funnel and we focus only on the top of the funnel and the bottom of the funnel and the process in between the funnel is completely then ignored because someone then decides I want you to know how many people you are talking to and how much sales you make you're not concerned about number of openings how many presentations ations you've had, the kind of objections you're facing, how many closing interviews have you gone for, how many deals have you been able to secure because all that tells you also the capability of a salesperson, right So those critical aspects need to be determined and no matter whether a leader wants it or not, you may be looking at two metrics. All the other elements of the the critical structure of the sales funnel need to be captured and need to be organized. And I've seen that once that happens, the AI doesn't help because it's just two metrics. and how we going to do a upsell campaign, a cross-ell campaign, you know, uh identify uh which which occupations or which segments of your client base will benefit from it. So I mean that's a classic example how I've seen where you're saying well you know uh you try to police your data and then AI gives you you inadvertently police the AI as a consequence. So as a consequence rather as a reason. Let me ask you about something you wished to meet before the interview. It's called simulation lab concept. Tell us about it and why now Well, the simulation lab concept is not new, but I just felt that over the years people have forgotten about this and this is very much relating to what I've seen taking place in the education sector and the corporate sector. Now I've attended a lot of it of conferences spoken at a few and uh last year I was at a conference where a CXO conference and an education conference were happening side by side and the CXs were saying we're still missing the skills of the new entrance the Gen Z's into the workforce they lack resilience they lack creative thinking they lack critical thinking and then on the other hand when I went across to to speak at the education conference the educators are thinking oh you know we've got corporate people as advisers on our board. We are aligned to what the corporates need. We are teaching them this. We are teaching them that. We are we're educating them. We're testing them on this. But then no one wants to accept the responsibility that this is shared. So uh in one of the conversations I had with the education institution, I said let's pilot this with this the the the final year students irregardless of faculty. Let's put them in positions of responsibility in a corporate sector. Give them the tools, enable them with the financials, the hypothetical financials, give them the empowerment, make decisions and see where that goes. So, it's a 5day exercise and every day is like a year and we throw curve balls at them and at the end of the day they reflect and then every day they reflect what they've learned, right And then they realize that cuz all they see is the tip of the iceberg. They don't know what happens in an organization, how decisions are made on the go and what the consequences are. So yes, uh it does a few things. One, it gives them an insight and they then prepare themselves better to step into a corporate environment. Second, they now know how the corporate environment works. And when they bring in when they start talking about their value at interviews, they know how to position their value better, right Sharp focus. They know where they can add value with AI where you know they'll try to understand that they have to manage not only downward but they have to manage horizontally with their peers and also upward. So that improves their communication but most importantly it gets their critical thinking to another level. So the simulation labs that we do we all already have AI. So every decision they put in, it automatically tells them topline number, impact to revenue, impact to employee morale, retention of of their employees, right Uh what will happen to the stock price as a consequence, right So and then they have to use that data and go back to the board and do a five or 10 minute presentation which allows them to improve their communication skill, how to communicate it up and down concise. So I think it's right. It's quite an important juncture to bring it in just like in a different model or a different manner unlike typical other simulation labs because it helps our genz's now come in and they very clear you know uh cuz everyone is ambitious say I want to be a CEO in 5 years but so you know what it takes the stimulation labs actually moderates that thinking and say well I now know what skills I need to acquire and in fact it helps the entrepreneurial journey learning cuz I would assume a lot of Gen Z's had a lot of side hustles failed in the side hustles but couldn't identify the learning from edge failure and these labs help them so that's why it is time for us to bring something back like that but the biggest challenge I see there Sam is companies are willing to to do this but academics will say well probably in the west it'll be easier but in Asia it's got to we have certificate ations here certification it's got to be accredited otherwise we won't take it on that resistance need to change right if you're talking about innovation innovation is is something that you don't need certification for innovation is what you rely on on bringing all the knowledge you have and then applying it and then learning and refining those those skills so how do you then certify you know it's like having a certificate for parenting just because I give you a certificate give a parent doesn't make you an expert parent. to desert. We are talking JSD workforce which of talent let's talk about them from let's call it exen to an exen. I don't know if you heard that term but I have invented that term. Instead of saying calligos generation X let's call ourselves that's more code I think. So from an Xen to an Xian. What do you think about the idea that GZ are not the same all over the world Is there a cultural impact on Gen Z Is a Gen Z in US is the same as Jenz in Philippine Yes, you have to put I think context and culture is a big element, right Uh since I started researching Jenz's, I've had the opportunity of speaking to Jenz's across although it's Asia mainly but I've spoken to Jenz's in the Middle East. I've also had engagements with Jenz's uh through my daughter's friends and schools and former colleagues here in the US. So what I've noticed is the cultural context plays a big part right the parenting styles obviously are key to it. The value system of Asian communities versus value system of the west those shape the genz's right. So a genz in America may say well do I need uh know a university degree to go out and get a job Not necessarily. I'll do all these courses online and you know build up my skills and then I'll go in you know and then uh at the age of 18 I'll tell my parents yeah I'm moving out I want to go out and the parents well it's good it's going to help you become more independent compare that to an Asian context where a university degree is seen as a golden ticket yes you want to take all your courses you're fine but if you're not a lawyer you're not an engineer you're not an architect you're not a doctor these are things that you that the the Asian uh diaspora is still you know uh sort of obsessed with right so kids will never give up the basis of completing their degree even if they have opportunities to leave and do their own side hustles and learn skills right so the golden ticket is still there second is this concept of failure priority you've not seen you know in Asian context we always have a huge respect for our parents right so we will always confer with them we will stay with them. Our parents are not going to, you know, uh, let you move out of the age 18. I said, "No, no, no. You're still too young. You don't have the skills." They always see you as that young kid. Even if you're 40, they will still treat you like that young 15, 16 year old. Uh, it's hard for them to let go because it is like a break of the chain of uh what we call generational command. So when we navigate the conversations between uh you know the western genzies I find that I can have a very much open direct candid way of conveying my thoughts and you know it's a very nice discourse I have with Jenz's but when I get to Asia I have to pull up a little further I have to say okay why do you feel that way and why do you develop where did you develop this is that your thought or you feel complying is the safest bet so context there also the other context of the maturity of that community. So when I was in my corporate career, I was actually posted to Lao in my last posting before I stepped away from corporate life. So I found that because they had gone through a whole period of civil war or they had difficulties after 1975 when their government was uh you know overthrown by the communists. The royal families were overthrown. The younger people who were born at that point in time didn't have access to the kind of infrastructure and education as their peers in other more advanced economies. So I I went in and I saw millennials. they were actually acting like exas and you know they didn't even show demonstrate anything about millennials the generation Y and then you have the Gen Z so there's a big cultural gap between the millennials and the gen Z's because the millennials happen to behave like exas so you know there is this context you have to to consider so it is different and so navigating context is a very big concern right so whether be a country an organization, a community, you always begin with context first. And only when you understand the context, as I do with all my clients, I like to understand what their context, where are they now, where do they want to go, what's the operating culture, only then can I sit down with them and say, okay, let's take these few steps. It also helps me to then say, well, this is how I communicate the need for change and what they're doing well at, right So you're right but that sort of sums up you know there are different ways that gen zers behave in different context here an advice to a 20year-old who feels lost in the world of today. Advice to a 20-year-old is you know uh everything around you is a myth if you look for possibilities. Okay, quickly. Do you believe Jay-Z will lead the AI revolution They will lead the AI revolution. They'll be the conduit for AI development. What you think a company of today should be doing differently for Gen Z talent in 30 seconds Well, they should be facilitating learning, unlearning, and relearning to stay relevant. Okay. Corporate myth to bust. The corporate myth that AI will replace people. No, it actually AI will show you who's capable. Quick message to Jenzi. Another person's opinion of you is not a reality. Your ideas are valid. Just keep staying curious. Leadership practice to end. The word feedback as a threat. I think it should be having conversations and insights. Make it a shared responsibility. What's the cost of ignoring purpose Becoming obsolete. That's that's when you lose purpose. Three innovations from your lab you believe the XEN isn't ready for. Relinquishing control. Understanding the difference between coaching and mentoring and directing, right And understanding that as a leader there is no longer a need to prove yourself. Three innovations from your lab. Do you believe Jay-Z will benefit from critical and creative thinking, right Everything has a cost and being accountable for it is the most important thing, right No more blame game, but being able to stand up and really tell, you know, authentic story and becoming an authentic leader will be definitely a key takeaway. Okay. From Anixian, Vanixian father, what's the message we give to our Ginzi daughter Uh well trust everything but verify it. Okay finish this sentence. The future belongs to those who remain curious. Okay. Now I will let you elaborate on this because this is how we will end this wonderful discussion and the question is what gives you hope. What gives me hope is that there remains a lot of possibilities which are yet to come. I I believe that if we look around us and all that clutter that we are seeing, there's a lot of noise and clutter and chaos. If we look deep enough, there actually new possibilities. And if we can declutter the noise and focus on the possibilities, there's just so much that we can do to empower our stakeholders, our community, our lives, and our relationships. And so I think it's important that as Axians we guide our friends, our children to declutter the noise but with depth and finesse, provide clarity, provide options, viable solutions, alternative perspectives but not label, judge or tear down ideas. Right uh I think that is something that we seeing has been permeating for for decades now and we actually have been holding ourselves back because we've been stuck in that way. We feel that that that's a natural defense mechanism. But if you're curious and we develop an awareness, you know, uh and even for me, I've developed so much awareness in my 3 years of entrepreneurial journey. You know, I started with Z's. I started with a single intervention program. Today I am adaptable to my clients, you know, but I make sure that my clients are of the same mind because it takes two to tango. So if they're not in the same mind, I'm happy to say, look, we don't share the same levels of curiosity to look for possibilities. And I'm not here to patch a wound. I'm here to help you build new muscles. So it was very nice having you.