AI Expert Panel - AI Deepfakes and The Future of Work - The Singularity of Hope

today on the show I'm happy to have a great panel of experts in the AI sector some quick intros we got Sam seain he's founder of Theos he has a book in the AI and he's launched this great company around it we have David hitz he's a founder of a stealth Brin computer interface startup we have Z Chen Zen executive director of AI 2030 and the founder of fintech for good thank you guys for being here today thank you so we're going to jump in some very hot topics right now we have the election upon us and there's a lot of concerns around AI generated deep fakes videos images are going to be coming out that are going to be swaying the thoughts and minds of Voters so to jump in let's start with you Sam what do you think about what's going on or what might be going on I think it would get very nasty will have for the first time the possibility of making very strong fake information supported by images and it could be in two direction like it could be done by for example the B campaign to manipulate formation about Trump campaign because parent have or could be used also by Trump campaign to spread like just call it better image for himself like what we have seen recently the fake image of black voters happy and celebrating with Trump handed hand which it could be a real thing but it's obviously F let me jump in if you can follow up the and thank you for the invitation and from me that using AI y election itself is a very exciting thing and I worked with someone who actually was trying to this is not as the federal level and but for district to election and then he was basically building this uh digital self using Ai and then to provide better access of himself to his followers to the voters and now that's large in in in the whole election no matter at what level and the large amount of money just being spent to just reach out to the voters but you are only one person and you only have this much of ability and your voter always are being left in dark or not enough to hear from you to understand you but with the potential of AI to just really be able to be you and ask a question like you giving feedback like you and then that's really democratize the whole election process and then to provide that kind of direct election which has never been before so that has a great promise of course that I also agree with Sam from Deep all other risk around Ai and it's also something need to be addressed so that's why AI 2030 and our goal is M responsible Ai and in election side that the risk is even bigger than any other places where that because the stake is Big so how to just make AI transparent accountable fair and sustainable and then those are the core concerns which are the core risks which any AI company will try to enter into the election space need to address I agree with s sh I remember when chbt came on the horizon in a big way some of the greatest minds and artificial intelligence specifically Jeffrey hon reacted very negatively to what was happening by the errors that chbt was making and people started perceiving chbt to be lying to them Hinton made a dramatic exit probably near his retirement and discounted AI completely and I remain optimistic about Ai and Geral sherin's talking about regulating AI so used in an exciting positive tashion if there's this information now between human to human interaction around these two polar figures in presidential race in the US I remain optimistic that the cooperation of developers and scientists can begin to regulate and control the behavior of AI I also know as a conversational AI designer and having built many speech recognition systems that there are techniques we can use in human machine interaction that for sure haven't been being used in many of the applications and experiments of chat gbt so I spent a good year with chat gbt and designed a a framework for developing a psychotherapist using speech recognition and shb so I remain optimistic that while there is this dangerous threat we have to remember and not forget that human to and communication can also be threatening and and I think for technology I'm optimistic I share your optimism in fact my book title is the singularity of hope so if about Hope and how the technology will be helping us amplifying our intelligence but going back to the idea of deep pay I don't think regulation will be helping us in any way it's the same just by analogy to the same situation with social media of course they can regulate social media and uh uh make it not legal to do fake news but who has interest in that both campaign are used to nasty f taks against each other and they will continue with AI the only thing will happen with AI is unfortunately there will be an argumentation our own intelligence let's not exaggerate how powerful a i is and the problem here is a human it's called it intervention with AI usually they tell you it's AI fake yes but who did it a human finally it could get nasty unfortunately and I don't think regulation will help us nobody would go and put a regulation that would put him in this uh favorable situation against the other yeah just to follow on understand that I fully agree with that so in the AI Europe that it's not any anyone's responsibility it's everyone's responsibility and the way that we we call the shared responsibility in the year of AI where that each one play a small role there legislators Define the responsibility Define the roles and but again from the legislation process you want to Define in the way which protect the minimum and if you protect the maximum and then you will find many people cannot or company cannot comply that becoming another type of disaster legislative process were you know just protect at the minimum and then the regulative process is really just enforcing that then you have the industry and then from Association all that's trying to see voluntarily what you can do then you have also the startups you need to build the tools to enable those re enforcement to enable them to do responsible AI in the way which is cost effective and also you know supported bus models then you have the media professional the users who also need to understand in the AI era that's a a lot of individuals viewers creators have different type of role but different type of rights which the rights yet to be defined clearly because before AI then those rights May in certain context may not be that important in certain context those right didn't emerge even so now in the AI enget individuals need to know what right do you have and what right you don't and then when you do certain things there are implication that you're EMB breaching others rights so there's a tons of thing that individual need to learn I think as a shared respons model is the one which we try to push and in the way that each you know individual or organization understand their role and also take this that role in the way which is serious and also responsible there's always propaganda in these elections right there's always slam campaigns but now we might have visual support deep fake visual support of some of these these rumors so what are you guys' thoughts on when that happens and how is it going to affect things is there any way to prevent things like this let me go into this and tell you unfortunately it will happen but I think at least now at our level of um technology we can detect it very easily so the way most probably it will be used is to amplify publicity to make news to make people talk about it's not just really to it's called it making deception or making lies fears more real more publicly talking about okay and of course we have always people who will be for Trump people who will be for Biden and they will believe anything to to trash the other side and will consider it as a proof but it would be funny would be mostly to gain air time and to talk about it and suddenly be an opportunity to say yes uh practically let's go back to the example of trump he will never be with the black voters this way that's what the Biden campaign would say and the others would say no he is open so chance to somehow talk more and using the trading uh topic which is AI and Technology to talk more and more about their campaign but we still very early in the technology so whatever we are Bing we can detect it very easily not very difficultly yeah go to Sam's Point where that high gr technology is available detection is really easy to do but I think another in the side of the story is also that's how available are those technology to the average people in their daily life and how to just bring that detection technology in a cost effective even is without any class and that is I think something that's you know need to happen again go back to share the responsibility model where that's in this that for example cing nature and you need to in this stage understand what's your responsibility there and then from the legislator and regulator say from the defect what is the the liability if you define that very clearly then those content creators trying to use def fake to just really created content they know their legal liability and if that communicate and then you have fewer of them who dare to do and who will do that in the way which doesn't generate or create those kind of damage which can be really at the scale and all that so that is one one thing from the Shar then from the technology provider side that to detect the Deep fake and to make that available for all you need new type of innovation you need a new Solutions you need also to bus model to just make that be available for the public and then there's also the grand makers and then Civil Society where that's to for example in the election space and then there are a lot of adcy and all those kind of organizations and in the US is always bipartisan and but I think there should be AAS are partisan so there should be bipartisan initiative which provide those initiative which help to any individual have any news or any those content piece and then they can help to just really you know answer quickly or with one click and see this is a fake this not fake and in the way it's not partisan and then you have really objective to fact check and see whether it's created by human or by Ai and with a it's a fake or not I think there should be large investment in that and then supported by the part bipartisan initiative bring out to for public to act yeah so to jump into the next topic which is Genera a eyes economic value like we've seen a lot of hype in the media in the stock market right with companies like Nvidia which is being low to new highs is there true economic value for businesses for organizations with generative AI uh a lot of companies are still in the experimental phase and with only a small percentage actually deploying it at scale so what are you guys seeing in industry is there areas where you really do think there's a lot of economic value I've been doing market research for my my own company and so I'm like the rest of us I'm in a particular vertical of AI technology it may use generative Ai and the one thing I learned over the past six months is that as you said many of the AI companies are in research and development mode and when they start commercializing it it's another research project what is the ideal application I think people have to go back to First principles and look at the market Revenue figures and verticals that are successful and attct a lot of people and and AI companies have to adopt a product focused it sounds simple but it's not product focused method of rolling out their applications I saw in the beginning of speech recognition and I like him we started speech recognition in the 90s so what's going on now with ai's Revolution no one knew where speech recognition would go all kinds of different applications are being developed somewhere successful somewhere and I think if more thought had been put into the market research possibly the right vertical can be more easily determined and a more successful application devel I would say that gener first of all I agree a lot with David or whatever he said and but I think we have a lot of potential are really in the beginning the only application that they can see immediately will change the way we act TT based like we will say finally we have a giant Buell Checker that is working so this is immediately we can use it and this is what transform the society to me and I detect some very hey man go use CH please you don't need this level to to suffer for nothing I think this is the immediate you summarizing text just call it optimizing your text that that's already in yours and happen now we have seen other things that I would consider them demonstration just fun let's call it Sora or whatever new things are coming they're still just fun it's impressive from the perspective of R&D here I agree not with David but I any tool will come out of it it could be has been said a research project may be F project very far from real application but that's maybe similar to what we have lived in the 90s in the beginning of the internet in the beginning everybody wanted to say let's do a Ecommerce let's transformed society and it took took practically a lot of time see happening yes relative AI will change the world we have amazing technology coming in but I don't think we have it yet still in the beginning with the only exception is this giant and beautiful SP shcker then we can use immediately my side that I want clear that I think J is not F and J is here and it creat a tremendous value for billions of people and the millions of company as of now and uh when you just look at the customer adoption curve of chbt in the past is incredible and also just look at all the my background was with the cloud company and how many of those different industry are leveraging gen capability to just create a new process new product offering and that you enhance the the efficiency of their sales their internal operation folks and also for coders who are just the L regim to generate so CH of them we are talking about really meetings buildings dollar of C saving for many of organizations the reason why I think from the any anything in term of the business adoption and it's not that something that's which create business value you can immediately to to launch that a customer facing application or product because especially if you're in the regulated industry where that to launch a product you have to just have your examiners your Regulators to proove that your product will just pass all that it's not that those product is not ready it's more as the product need to be launched in the market and then especially at the scale need Regulators need different Readiness so I think again from the true value and the J value is already proed it's not that yet to be proved but came from the adoption as I agree with Sam is early adoption and a lot more enter Enterprise level of big successful story beyond the chbt need to just be there and we are going to see a lot of excitement in the next even 10 12 months yeah I give it from my aspect of gen right I'm in a a marketing space right a marketing sales growth things like that and it's all about word smithing it's all about visuals and what I've been able to do in my current Venture is not hire a graphic designer I don't need that person anymore I don't need copywriters right because we can just take some ideas and we can populate the information on our website we can populate the scripts we send to Target new customers we can help write our content for social media so as as far as economic value in in my small scale I've now removed seven or eight staff members so I think that brings us next into AI in the future of work what roles are going to be disappearing what new roles are going to arise what new job categories and skills are workers going to need in my book I have a chapter I call it the rise of digital proletaria I'm borrowing a little bit from Carl Mark book but he was talking about the revolution of workers I'm talking about revolution of digital workers or chat or robots and they are coming yes they will take a lot of jobs that will consider right now human jobs especially everything that's related to creativity so I agree with you in chat when you tell me you don't need these people I will add to them because you are the creative person you don't need people are behaving like machine I used to tell people a problem is not generative AI became like human the problem in the last 50 years are asking human to behave like machine so if I now will replace them these jobs will be gone but creativity are still needed in your particular case I agree with you but you are the creative person so you don't need machine people anymore you can use directly generative AI there is a big value here but also there is a a big danger the danger is not that we not have things to do or we don't need to he but we still need creativity we still need the human being and the generative AI is really basic let's not give it over estimated power but here the problem is that we use to ask people to behave in a certain way in the J work and to do very basic stuff and this kind of jobs will disappear we not need another copywriter that is practically a span General if it's creative yes definitively because here comes the problem the problem we need to repr program Society to become creative to revive emotional intelligence and uh to become human again so yes there would be a big impact on the job unfortunately a lot of job will disappear but I think a lot of other jobs will come uh to life and also the difficulty of creating company would become much less difficult because you if you are a creative person you don't need people just like machine to do things that's you can program it in or automated with AI tools but in this case you need only the creativity only the human touch things would be changing drastically and I have a huge fear for our Regulators that I think will not catch up they will wait until we have a big problems in the shop we have this job the job that the future rant table discussion in the past uh few months we invite quite a emerging Tech technology leaders exactly dive deep into that there are a couple of conclusions and number one is that all jobs will disappear and reemerge in a different form so then from our the job of future destination the number one thing need to happen is happening is the job or the work will be redesigned your your example when you just those people who are in your staff member and then they are G but the nature of your job also are redesigned in the sense that all jobs will be redesigned where that's the core concept there is really is the human machine collaborative intelligence that's the guiding guiding part where how the J will be redesigned and how to define a human part and also the machine part and then how that collaborating mechanism will be built and and what will be the interaction how to just qu and all that so the first part is really the redesign piece redesign pieces happen in all job category and for any jobs and you can imagine no matter you work out metaverse robotic all the traditional manufacturing your job will be redesigned so that's number one number two is that's app scaling so where that's again that's the reason why you can just get rid of those job because you are a creative person who also learn than you your skills use prct engineering and all that to just you know create the meet the need that you have so many of the people who just you know left your company and will take up new skills then they reemerge as a new professional for within this s machine collaborate intelligence type of work and then Define your own role then this UPS scating P perspective is very important for the individual and we have seen many of the professionals no matter you you know the traditional division as a white color and blue color and all that any color of the of your color and then upscaling becoming a ense in the professional development the third piece is for the corporate and as re redefine your Workforce where that's again go back to the current Workforce and the many time that you get rid of certain job titles and all that but the new job title you will emerge for example in my field as responsible AI as a company are developing or using of AI you need experts who really are responsible AI experts who know about ethics who know about legal who know about compliance who know about coding and then those kind people don't exist if you don't have that naturally if your customer ask you can you explain your AI and you can't or if there's a consequence in your Ai Ai and then your regulator ask you and then how you can address the bias and then or if there's your serving different population coming from different religion where that your AI only provides this mainstream feedback for Ming for one religion other religion feel that you're you're against them and then if you don't have product design and also implementation and and all that you don't have the responsible AI folks for you your AI product your Finance your product will have has a problem that will incur a lot of class but this kind of roles are the professionals don't exist certification are not exist and so you will see many of the new Workforce when if you had the AR HR in your company and plan your future Workforce becoming a very important piece of that first and um I grew up as a researcher at MIT in this first epic of artificial intellig which were rule based systems and the great professors Marvin Minsky and Seymour paper taught that I would free people up to be to reach a higher level of self and do more creative things so that was echoed through both of the other speakers I think a nice synopsis or picture to carry around is what AI is now doing in medicine there are surge s performing surgery with the AI robots and the AI robot is at all times subservient to the surgeon I suppose one day we can imagine some surgeries being replaced entirely by robots but rather than focusing on taking away jobs I like the Paradigm where there's a collaborative mechanism between the surgeon and the AI robots and I think those are the kinds of applications that will really thrive in the next year or so I agree with you 100% And this is a typical example how we are behaving like machine surgeon is people who are performing surgeries they are not doing any new practically research during the surgery the research already done before we imagine an projection our I what you have just said for the future I think within 20 years we'll have robot that will perform the surgery but if human will continue innovating New Circle this is what would be really different will would give people freedom in fact I will take our routine and give us back our creativity where we need to become really creative Innovative human and that's what I talk about in my book I call it the singularity of hope this is the the is singularity not by the machine overcoming us as the intelligence but by us coming free and become super intelligent ourselves to move us into our closing topic here around actually it's a perfect flow through into surgery and AI David you are very focused right now on brain computer interfaces now to many of us something like neuralink and things like Elon Musk is doing are very foreign now you're deep into this so I want to hear the real potential of this technology and where you see it going the brain computer interface is based on the parad time of recognizing people's thoughts and transmitting them to a device or a computer or an augmented reality environment or of the metaverse some think like Facebook Rand computer interface is a wonderful interface for the metaverse I'm forgetting the second thought I wanted to say if you look at a brain computer interface mechanism there is the process of recognizing the thought by sensing or electric waveforms that are coming emitting to the skull being picked up by a transition like the EEG that people have routinely medical tests with and now with these waveforms we have to somehow decode them into speech representation is phones and even even finer grin of phones once we have the speech the raw speech we can make sense of it and interpret what the person is saying and what they're meeting to say and have that interact with the couter I focus on this may not be all the time but currently I'm focused on non-invasive non-surgical sensing of the the brain I think in the short term to build a product that's going to sell significantly yes I agree with what El mus is doing helping people who are Bic or people who even people who can't speak but he's doing an invasive technique which is what neuralink is about I think in the early days for everybody to have equal access to brain to computer interfaces we need a low cost sensor system on the C I would recommend EEG sensory systems we need a good way of decoding from the waveforms to speech and then we need to interface it to a computer and build applications that as every one of three hit vertical verticals that are 33 billion markets if any of our listeners wanted to contact you to learn more and dig deeper into this or learn about your efforts how can they do so yeah contact me first at my personal email address d a. h r o wi T z1211 and we can link either in what app or find each other in LinkedIn and take it from there perfect and then Sam if listeners wanted to buy the book or get in touch about Theos how could they do so for the book you go to Amazon and you you look for the singularity of Hope but the easier you can go to my website stan.com it's a m.com and there is link to purchase the book there is of course three versions right now the paper bag the hard cover and the eBook The ebook I'm saying only for $1 I'm trying just SPL the information here love to get money from people theim uh our website is under development we are still in the beginning but hopefully by the end of the month it's a the and practically will be operating in the domain of digital worker we provide two products so the first one is Robo it's practically kgpt meet meeting roboco so instead of having a a dumb roboco which would be a smart one that can interact and uh provide very smart discussion and most probably I think of it as the customer support uh for a lot of company especially in the medical field and the customer service so one friend of mine who has restaurant he told me most of the call he's receiving is when he's closed so having a robot taking the calls and interacting with a client would be very good for small businesses as well and we do have hour Chicago AI Conference in June on June 25th and to 26th in Chicago many of the problem that's what we discussed here will be discussed there and you will hear many of the experts from the conference and anyone want to check out to feel free I want to thank everybody for listening to the show today and our three experts for coming in to speak about Ai and all the different Realms of what's happening in the world with it if you like the show make sure to subscribe for more great content like this I'm your host Chad Ki with FTS and we'll see you next time